[00:00:00] Nate. Gotcha. Yeah, perfect. How you doing? Good, good. How are you? Good, good. What you working on? Too much. Too much. You know what? I I I mean, even though it's AI, right? I I'm looking forward to this because you you vibe code like, right? No code. Yeah. And like that's what I do all day every day like on three three different computers like Yeah, so let's talk about that.

[00:00:27] Tell tell us everything about vibe coding. Well, uh today uh I've learned a lot of lessons, I would say. Uh it's a very good way to start. Um basically, you you mentioned like three different computers. I've had I had three different applications this morning that uh were just broken. What? Uh well, parts of them were broken, right? Like it's not like they just all just died, right?

[00:00:55] It was it was like I pushed things to a production live site where the client was like, you know, using it and testing it and whatever. Um and random things are broken. And I go in and I ask Claude code like, hey, why is this broken? It's like, oh, no worries, I'll fix it. And then I push it and then I'm like, uh you didn't quite fix it there, bud. Uh what's going on here?

[00:01:22] Um so yeah, so then there's just there's like all those different things. There was one I'm trying to like integrate a payment system with that's that's not Stripe and it's like this whole different one. So that's been like a huge pain to figure out. Um so yeah, just like and I got all of them like figured out throughout the day, but you it's like you can get 99% of it and then like the 1% just becomes like I know, I know.

[00:01:53] I tell people I have a Duda site which I'm getting rid of, I think in days, if not today. Um

[00:02:00] It was good for what it was and I I've kept it for months because um like I one of the thing I'm going through a crazy stressful uh legal situation, which is fine. But like I I blog. I wake up and I blog and like I'm doing this whole AI related to whatever. So like I'll think about like Lana Del Rey, right? Like cuz I I was playing Spotify and I look over and she's got billions of plays.

[00:02:23] Billions. She's one of the top 30 artists. So I'm like, okay, why is that? How does that apply to AI? So it's a stress reliever. But ev every time I look at that damn site, I hate it. Like it's and it's 80% there. When I vibe code something, I can't do Claude. Let's touch on that, man. But but everybody else uses Claude as the foundation, right? And I've got I've got Lovable and I use you you use all of them.

[00:02:48] I use all of them, Base 44, VO. I don't use Cursor. I can't do that brain surgery. I have not used that either. Oh my god. I I'm non-technical, right? But now you it's you don't have to be technical, right? Necessarily, like until you get big boy. Um and but now the the skill like you is the system and my myself is the design, the vision. We're older.

[00:03:09] I think you're 44, right? I'm I'm 51. No, I'm not quite that. I'll be I'll be 36 here soon. Oh okay. I did the math wrong then. I always do the math. Um but you know, we have a different perspective than all these dudes on X and Reddit especially that are 19, 20, 21, 22 that are walking into this blind. They're You know what I love and I'll shut off.

[00:03:30] I'm going too long. Is like these videos where people get a Lambo and get a half a mile out and realize what a 12 or no, a Lambo is going to be a 10 cylinder or a Ferrari and 12, right? They realize real quick when they like run into another car, turning a corner. And that's like what vibe coding is. Like at least you and I have some perspective, right?

[00:03:52] We have like before, during, after. Okay, we know well with me cuz I'm older, like I remember magazines, right? So literally I say

[00:04:00] like an editorial magazine's design style. It makes it this gorgeous like Ritz-Carlton, right? And um some of them are better than others. Okay, so back to you. You do it in Claude? You go to Claude? Yeah, I actually um I kind of thought this was a a little bit of a normal setup, but I'm kind of finding that it might be a little it might be a little niche because I So the way I pulled off what I do is is I I'm learning it's kind of a ninja setup, but I I thought it was pretty pretty normal to be honest.

[00:04:29] But um so the the main platform that I that I really enjoy that I like and I I build a lot of my tools in is called Vibe Code. They just they just went for it. They're just like we're not going to like The app. Yeah, yeah. It's Yeah. They're just like we're not even going to like be like lovable or basically We're just going to call it literally Vibe Code.

[00:04:50] Um but their their main model is Claude Code. So like in the chat like that is that you can pick which model, Opus 4.6, Sonnet, whatever. Um but in the top corner they have a a little thing where you can either download the code or you can um you can secure shell is what it's called into Cursor or into VS Code, right? Visual Studio Code. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:05:10] Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. And I came across this YouTube video months ago that was like, "Hey, you can use Claude Code inside of Visual Studio Code." I was like, "Hmm, interesting." So what I'll do is I'll secure shell into VS Code Mhm. and then I will just There's a little plugin like a Google browse like a Chrome plugin kind of thing for VS Code. You just sign in with your um your Anthropic uh keys and your login right there.

[00:05:35] You authorize it and you can literally just be in VS Code and you can be typing with Claude. And what that does is since it's secure shell connection which is basically like a um for anyone who doesn't know, it's just like a kind of a seamless transaction right like as soon as you update the code over here, it updates over here. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Uh which is really awesome because I don't have to use my Vibe Code credits.

[00:05:59] I can

[00:06:00] basically just use my Claude subscription credits in my usage, right? Yeah. Um and man, that has been a game changer because like you said, I run into I run into problems where I'm like, I don't really I have no idea how how to code out of this or what to do or why this is breaking. And I've found that it's just the the clearer I can be with explaining that and adding any screenshots I need to just like even if it takes me 5 minutes to just type that in and be very methodical, it can fix stuff pretty pretty easily.

[00:06:30] Like it it actually does a very good job with things. Um it's not just like, hey, this is broken. And then it's like, well, you know what I mean? Um but that that's kind of the the the process that I have going through that. Yeah, cuz I know people I mean, all you hear on X, like all you hear is Claude, Claude, Claude. And I use them all. I use them free or I've got paid to Blink, which is not very good, but whatever, they're not they're a nice company.

[00:06:57] They just their credits burn on Blink. Burn. I don't understand it. Like Lovable, I think they're pretty reasonable. Base44 seems reasonable. And they all use Claude. So when people say Claude, I'm like, it's it I'm looking at the directions. It's baked into all of them. I'm not switching it. I don't know or care 2.5 Gemini or whatever Codex. But then you're I think you're doing what um what a lot of people do and I didn't understand is cuz I was cuz I'll go into Claude and I'll do an archive and it, you know, it's just like Lovable almost.

[00:07:30] The design isn't there, but it's it hosts it, you know, you get a link, everything. Um and then I've taken that and dumped it. It's for the framework to test it out and then dumped it into Lovable and boom, you know. Yeah. But um I just I want to be able to fine-tune it and what I think what I and what you're doing is what the big boys do and what I didn't understand.

[00:07:52] They're not going to Claude. They're not going to archives or whatever the Claude co-work is now. You're you've got the API coming in

[00:08:00] and your cuz that's what cursor is. It's like the VS Yeah, so it's now I kind of get it. So when you're doing that, how would you compare that to like the dummy stuff that I like like Lovable and B uh Base44? Is it Is design-wise do you think it's the same? Cuz Lovable's amazing for design. Yeah, I mean that's uh To be honest with you, I'm not a professional really in in Visual Studio Code.

[00:08:22] I am very new to it. I remember hearing about it in old jobs that I had of like the actual developers like using it and stuff. Um so I know I I'm pretty sure there are like plugins kind of like Claude Code that you can get that you can actually like Yeah. pull up a design kind of in one window. That's what's kind of cool is you can have like multiple instances kind of open all at once.

[00:08:44] Um I just I honestly haven't really got that far because again I I kind of have it secure shell connected to the tool so I can literally just do the do the edits in Visual Studio, come over here, click refresh. Oh, it's there. Boom. Like I never really had the need to figure out how do I look at the design and and kind of go through that. So uh maybe that maybe that's the next level for me.

[00:09:06] I I I've just never really had the need to to figure that out. Yeah. Yeah. Um but but the other difference is that when you when you pull that code into Visual Studio Code, when you connect it through Lovable or Vibe Code or whatever, it gives you that like markdown library on the side of like here's your Claude instance, here's your workspace, here's the back end, here's the front end, here's So you can actually dig into the code and see it whereas in something like Lovable um you just kind of type in and and you're like it it it's very signal driven.

[00:09:38] It's very um you know just text based, right? Um that that's kind of the main difference and I honestly don't poke around in in the code and do a lot of those things unless I absolutely really need to cuz I really don't know what I'm doing half the time when it comes to that nitty-gritty stuff, you know? Mhm. Mhm. I would tell you I am proud of myself every single time I type in

[00:10:00] HTTPS. That's the most technical I am. At one point, I think I knew some head tag stuff. I did dude I did the HTML, the copy paste, plug it in, whatever. But like so I'm getting rid of dude because so it's 80 per I 20% well, I think it's 80% there. Like every time I hate it. Every I look at it. And then with any site in Lovable or whatever else, like it's like 95%.

[00:10:21] There's still the 5% I hate. Right? So anyways, whenever, you know, people say give me feedback on this and I'm like, okay, and there's always something wrong like and people have opinions obviously. Um so how do you get where are you located? I'm in Pittsburgh. Oh, okay. Um I've never been to Pittsburgh. Is it nice? It is. It's uh it it used to be I remember I grew so I grew up in Erie, which is a couple hours north of here.

[00:10:47] Uh and it was always kind of like a joke of like, ah, you don't want to go to Pittsburgh. Like it's just but it's really come a long way. It's very, very nice. The the NFL draft is coming here at the end of this month here in April. Uh and they redid like a whole bunch of the downtown stuff kind of along the waterfront and stuff. It's Yeah. Oh, wow.

[00:11:08] Um if you've never been to a Pirates game, I mean the Pirates suck, let's be honest, but it's a beautiful PNC Park is one bucket list place to watch a baseball game. It's awesome. It's so beautiful. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Are you guys across the river from like Ohio or? Um not quite. So we're we're pretty close. I mean, Ohio's only like a half hour drive, 20 minute drive from where we are.

[00:11:31] I think we we used to live in DC, but we'd go to New York and um and we went to Philly. Philly's a nice town. It's very big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's the other side of the state from me. We don't go over there much. Um East Coast. Um so how do you find your customers? Like cuz I it looks like you're doing really well. Yeah, we've uh you know, it's funny.

[00:11:52] I was just talking with somebody about the about this the other day. There was like a there was a window last year, like 2020

[00:12:00] I kind of was like, man, I don't I don't really know what what I'm going to do with this. Like is this business really going to like make it? Like what's were we being replaced? Like what what is happening? And um you just have to have a little faith, I guess, because then it just like the floodgates opened. It was just something that just was like, wow, the demand for this just went through the freaking roof.

[00:12:23] Yeah. Um so we we get found a lot. Um there's actually one kind of little secret that kind of I like to share with people is so when you go on places like Lovable or even like the old tools like Bubble or whatever, a lot of them will have an experts platform where if somebody goes on and they're like, I can't figure this out, they it's like, hey, hire an expert.

[00:12:45] Um so we try to get listed on a lot of those because then that's how we get a lot of leads to be honest. People people are just like, hey, can you like do this for us? Oh, what do you need? Uh we need X, Y and Z app and maybe we built it 90%. We just kind of need the rest of it. Okay, here's what we would need. Here's the quote for that. Off we go. Um so that's one that's one way.

[00:13:07] I started doing a little bit of Facebook advertising, which has been pretty good. Um that's also a hit or miss thing because I just was saying the other day, it's amazing to me. We literally I saw a lead come in from the form that we filled out. Called them within about 10 minutes and they had like no idea who I was. Like completely forgot that they like filled out this form.

[00:13:29] And I was like, wow, are attention spans like that bad? Like you literally just sent this out. Um so that was pretty that was pretty funny. Um but yeah, I mean that that's that's how we get a lot of them, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I hate I hate Facebook and I used to work for a nonprofit and we'd call the people back from the whatever they 15 grand a month or whatever they spent on junk Facebook ads for junk leads and um yeah, email the people or call them, they'd have no clue.

[00:13:57] And I'm like, look, I know you're confused. I think

[00:14:00] you clicked on something on Facebook, it pre-populated your stuff, and maybe you had a few Xanax. I don't know. Like, you know, something happened here with the memory loss, and then they go, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah." Yeah. I'm like, cuz they were trying to raise money, you know, so they were clicking on everything. And actually, my mom, who she does stuff like that, and I'm like, "Mom, never never click on anything on Facebook, never buy anything." Or Instagram is more, you know.

[00:14:29] Um so they are I How long How long did it take you to get listed with Lovable? Cuz I I did it. I just haven't done it for the other platforms. But um and there were some people There were only like 12 listed. That one, I actually That's a good question. I don't actually know if we are listed with Lovable, to be honest. Um I I think I did apply for it.

[00:14:51] Yeah. Um yeah, I'll actually have to follow up with that. I don't think we are listed on Lovable, to be honest. Okay. Um there's one we're listed on, uh Adalo, which is a little bit of an older platform, but that that still gets us gets us a lot of leads. Bubble. Um yeah, I should I should look into Lovable. I haven't I haven't done that one recently, actually.

[00:15:13] It's It's wonderful. I mean, it's going to be the category, you know, it's it's going to be like the GPT. And I'm sure that the cursor or, you know, V or whatever, how would it VO, VX, whatever, VS Code or something, will be like the Claude. Did you see this statistic or this chart recently? It was love or Claude has surpassed um OpenAI GPT for revenue just recently.

[00:15:35] But the numbers were what Yeah. Doesn't surprise me, actually. No. And listen, Claude code, I I saw the statistics like this year, it has like doubled or quadrupled like the revenue off of Claude code alone, and it's still only like $2.3 billion. Dude, they're they got something in the water over there. They have been shipping stuff Yeah. every week.

[00:15:57] I know. That's just insane. Like, they're

[00:16:00] Honestly, I I would come out and say this like I think they're kicking OpenAI's ass. They are Without a doubt, man. Like they are just shipping stuff like And then I saw a thing today it was like uh you know OpenAI's com uh giving a $100 a month plan for users maxing out cursor for the $20 a month plan. I'm like Without a doubt. Yeah. Where have you guys been?

[00:16:23] Like I'm like I'm like dude they're mopping the floor with OpenAI right now. They really are. Yeah, I think it'll Well, I know it'll end up like Microsoft and and Google, right? Um but but it'll be Claude is already 70 I I looked this up and I remember I could be making it up. 78% of enterprise AI spend. 78%. And it's And it has gone up drast So what struck me is I got hardcore into Vibe coding Yeah.

[00:16:49] Wow. maybe last quarter and I've gotten very good. Like I know because I go on Reddit and these people suck. They are horrible, right? And like if they ask I'm going to be like you need to work more like you're not good. And they're like why are you being mean? I'm like I'm just helping you ask for feedback. Like I I post stuff and I go tell me why this sucks.

[00:17:12] And you know what? It's free consulting. I mean I'm like this is gold. Anyways, so I got into it and and then of course, you know, we're Yeah. 4 months into this year three, you know, three technically four. Um the numbers look at them are explosive since then since thir since half a year ago, 3 months ago. It is literally vertical. Literally. The hockey stick everybody talks about.

[00:17:37] And it's I mean come on 2.3 20.3 would be nothing the infrastructure for all these companies. So Claude's got that down, right? Claude is the and I think GPT is like okay we'll take the rest of the world, right? So I think it'll end up like that because yeah, it's Claude with co-work. Have you tried that? The co-work? Yeah, I've been I've been

[00:18:00] I'm still pretty new at it, but I've been like every day I'm kind of adding like one new task is my goal to kind of just get like Okay, what's what's the thing? I mean, I'm pretty pretty basic with it right now. I have like an email triage task, a daily briefing, an end of day update. Um I do have I created one to give me uh podcast ideas, great things for uh AI news, no-code news, things like that that I can do for my podcast for the week, which is kind of cool.

[00:18:26] But But yeah, I'm breaking into that cuz that's pretty that's pretty cool as well. Yeah. Um um tell me about your podcast. Like what Is it like this? Is it on AI or what is it? A little bit, yeah. So um man, I've I've had like five different iterations of the podcast. I never started a new one. I just like kept it going. It It really started as like an individual like um motivational type of podcast a long time ago.

[00:18:50] Um but now it's kind of warped into It's called Tech Bites. So what I do is it's kind of a mixture. I'll do solo episodes where I'm just kind of giving my thoughts on um hey, there's this news story that happened. I'm very, you know, or maybe even like a case study. Um there's like like a good case study was what I talked about at the beginning of like here, I had three problems in this day.

[00:19:13] Like that'd be a good episode. It's like walkthrough. Um but I also do interviews just like this like we're doing. Um and then uh there's there's ones I did before for a while where I did just kind of go through like the top five AI stories and just kind of give my thoughts on them whether they were, you know, like um the government was in in, you know, investing $90 billion or something in in in Pennsylvania for AI stuff.

[00:19:38] And I've just kind of went off on like here's why here's what I think about these kind of things. Just offering like my my very real and raw like, you know, feedback and thoughts on things. So um so yeah, it's been it's been fun. That's cool. I um I think literally today I don't know. I try and piss somebody off on Reddit every day. I'm pretty successful today.

[00:19:59] But um I'm I got

[00:20:00] The SEO forum I really don't care about, but like I didn't read the rules, I did something wrong, I don't know, I got blocked. But like it's so hard to get another Reddit account, right? Which I have. But um I don't I really don't care because like I go into the other ones, local SEO and whatever, and the number one thing working for me right now is podcast, 100%.

[00:20:20] Whatever I do because from and from Spotify it distributes to a bunch of platforms. Well, I I signed up a client for I don't know, transistor.fm or something like that. There's a ton of them. And 12 bucks or whatever and you can have unlimited podcasts. But I mean it distributes to tons and tons and tons. And then there's all these vampire ones. Anyways, they're disagreeing with me and I'm going I have eyeballs.

[00:20:44] I'm literally cuz a long story, I never used my middle name and then somebody did and so now their stuff pops up, right? I'm kind of pissed cuz I don't I like not I like the anonymity, right? Cuz there's a lot of Jason Wates out there, right? So I can get in trouble if I So but somebody used my middle name, which I don't like, and they did it on purpose.

[00:21:04] So now I'm doing everything with I'm adding my middle name, which is cheesy, but whatever. Um so it instantly with podcast cuz it reindexes the stuff. People don't realize that. If you want to know an evil hack and you want to promote something and dominate the whole page, go back to your old episodes and change the title with that keyword. And these people these people are like, it's not worth my time, whatever.

[00:21:28] I'm like, you're on Reddit 4 hours a day telling people what idiots they are. Why don't you And people say that, I go, just show your work. Because show your work and they won't. And I'm like, why don't why That's why we're here, but people are there to be right. I'm not. I'm there to learn and suck, you know. But anyways, so I it's it's interesting like um cuz you've been doing like so when did you get heavy into it?

[00:21:52] Cuz with that thing like now there are so many people, but you know, a year ago nobody. Five Codings only a year or so old. Yeah.

[00:22:00] I mean, I remember a couple episodes on my podcast. I actually had a probably a three or four episode like tear where I was just like shit talking. I was just like this sucks. I I tried. Uh this stuff does not work. Uh it's pretty funny. Like and I never took those episodes down cuz I would love to go back. Yeah, I didn't I mean, I don't care. Um but Oh, really?

[00:22:21] Yeah. yeah, I was like this is not not great. And I left it open. I was like maybe it'll get good. Maybe it'll change. Maybe these things will improve. I'm sure they will. Um and then I came out and I literally did an episode of like I was wrong. And I just kind of like went on like this whole thing. So, uh but yeah, I mean, that was kind of where um I think it was probably like I don't know, November, December last year when I really started to be like, oh, I think I think I need to pay attention to this because the the the tide is is turning, you know?

[00:22:53] Um and then this year have just been like Oh, yeah. it's it's been it's been like a whirlwind. I can't believe like how fast things have gone, the stuff we've been able to do. Like I used to have, you know, a much longer timeline to build stuff even using no-code tools. And now it's like you know? Um so it's just like it's hard to keep track. I haven't even updated a lot of my portfolio stuff just cuz I'm just like onto the next thing.

[00:23:18] And people like, yeah, can you send me some some uh samples of what you've done? I'm like, I haven't updated anything in 6 months cuz I just been building stuff so fast. So like I'll send you a couple links, you know? Um but uh but yeah, I mean, it's it's been it's been like I was I was thinking about it the other day. It was almost like like starting my business all over again um just because it was like like learning everything from scratch just going and just building and it's messy and I don't know what we're doing, but we're figuring it out as we go.

[00:23:50] And it was it's been it's been stressful, but it's been really fun. Yeah. Um that's what I don't read directions. I can't read directions. Like I just can't.

[00:24:00] Like I mean if I get like something and it's two steps like Bluetooth Bluetooth you always got to read the directions, right? You got to know which button to hold down for 3 seconds or 5 seconds and it and you have to to pretend and I'm like what? Anyways, so but when I go to a platform I screw it up. I first I have one word that I try. It's fart and um I just type it in and I see what I can do, right?

[00:24:25] And this never censored and then I usually try one that might or might not be censored, right? But and then you know I I mess it up and then I'm like okay I got to go to everything and click on everything, right? To learn it. I think a lot of people are so careful when they try stuff out and um you can't break it, right? It's just and that's what I like.

[00:24:48] I tell people just type in horses and it'll type in a it'll create a gorgeous website about horses, right? The most comprehensive and then I say okay now this is what you do. You say look I'm really especially with Lovable I'm really into Ralph Lauren. I love this type of horse. Um I live in you know the countryside in Pennsylvania. Um create a website for me about types of grass, right?

[00:25:13] And then it gets super specific and then you say yeah your specifics make you know of course you said Ralph Lauren um make it multi pages add a blog 2500 words eeat. It's unreal. People I over complicated it. I tried to do something with a maps API and this API and it was like a I don't know what I was thinking but this also was like June or so of last year.

[00:25:36] Now I tell people do not make the mistake do not try and do all this stuff. I never do APIs anymore with Lovable like it just does it. It just it's so rapidly everything is getting better so rapidly. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. Um yeah, what kind of mic do you use? Um I have I have a Blue Yeti. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I do need a new one. I don't I don't I just got this like

[00:26:00] pop kind of filter thing on it um which looks kind of funny when I like hold it up on on shows and stuff but I need I I've been I've been wanting to invest in another one but this one's several years old but it does the job. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I it's nice cuz you don't have to have phantom power so it's I've got one too it's nice and it's really portable too and it sounds better than the Snowball.

[00:26:25] Um yeah, but what I did with the podcast have you done any cloning with Eleven Labs or have you done like the notebook LM hack? Yeah. Um no, I have not done that. I've not really dove into um any of those things like that's one area of the AI of AI that I'm really not up on is the the voice and the video stuff. Yeah. Um I use Riverside for my podcast which which does a pretty good job of like cutting things up and it gives me shorts um Yeah.

[00:26:54] and it really gives like the AI quality sound it's just one click of a button it can remove different things like it does a pretty good job there. That's about the extent of what I've done with that um but I have not really dove into the Eleven Labs, the HeyGen softwares like anything like that I really I really am behind on those. Yeah, yeah. Um so what's next?

[00:27:17] Um what's next is um I think I'm looking at it here on my other monitor I think there there's a new tool out there and I hate to give them free publicity but they're cuz I've had some trouble with it so far but have you heard of Paperclip? I don't know it sounds familiar what what do they do? So it's it's supposed to be a zero person company right and it's it's kind of this next frontier of like you can build out your age of like a CEO AI agent then you have your CTO and then your CMO and your CFO and then they all have project managers and designers and developers and it's like it's like literally building an org chart of all AI agents you know.

[00:27:59] Oh. Mhm. Mhm.

[00:28:00] Um honestly, I've had a It was It was kind of a pain for me to set up. Um I finally figured it out. Um and we'll see how it goes, but that's that's kind of been um kind of my next frontier. So, my wife and I were having our first baby here in July. Oh, cool. Congrats. Um so, I'm trying to figure out how can I how can I use Claude co-work and how can I uh you know, do more things from my phone while being able to care for a baby but have a little bit of time off, but but manage things.

[00:28:29] So, um yeah, I think that that's that's kind of it for me cuz like the vibe coding thing I've kind of realized like okay, I kind of got this down. We can we can ship software, we can do stuff, but like how do I how do I go a level up? How do I how do I you know, systematize and AI-ify, if that's a word, my operations and my uh my systems and my processes, you know?

[00:28:51] Um that's kind of where my mind has been going of how can I kind of tie all these things together, you know? Um so, tools like this are different. Uh there was one I I tried out called Pulsia as well, which is just like you just give it an idea and it just does a task every day and creates your whole business for you and stuff. Um but, you know, then you can just end up with endless subscriptions and endless money that you spend on things.

[00:29:18] So, trying not to trying not to fall down that rabbit hole. The tokenization of this world is pretty crazy in and of itself, but I know. Um but yeah, that's kind of what's what I think is next. I think it's just it's really trying to you know, I I Did you see the story recently about a guy and his brother that launched this this company and it's like 400 million they did in sales uh with only AI, AI agents and stuff?

[00:29:44] No, I didn't see that, but I believe it, yeah. It's Well, they they're in a market that's hot. It's the GLP-1 market, right? So, they um their their company's at value They They're like the first billion dollar entrepreneur with AI has been made, but it's Yeah.

[00:30:00] It's like it's kind of a caveat. Their company is valued at over a billion. They made 400 million in sales, which is like okay still like that's a shitload of money. And it's him and his brother. Like they're the only real people in the company. And they did 400 million dollars. I mean for for me to sit there I'm like damn like that's insane. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:30:20] Their profit margins got to be wildly high. I mean I'm sure they're spending a ton on AI but but like how can how can guys like you and me model that? How can we how can we 10x our our revenue in our company without hiring more people, you know? Yeah, yeah. Um that's kind of what's been on I was about to do that last year. I was looking into like you know an executive assistant and VAs and different things like I I need to take some stuff off my plate to do different things and then this came along and I was like huh this can work.

[00:30:51] This can work. This could do this could do the trick for me, you know? Yeah. So that's that's kind of my next step I think. How similar the websites that you do how similar to each other are they? Um well everything's different, you know? They're all they're all niche stuff. So like for example we've done um one we just got done doing which is really cool is in the pet space.

[00:31:12] So you it's almost like a Airbnb for pets where you can kind of list different things and do things like that. Uh working on like an Upwork type of clone which is completely different than that. Um you know one where there's gym listings and approvals. So like they're all they're all very very different but um you know one of the similarities that we do with with a lot of them is multi-roles.

[00:31:35] So um you know a lot of like marketplace things, two-sided things uh where there's visibility and there's role differentiation and permissions and different things like that which when you get into VibeCode it can be kind of tricky sometimes, you know? Um so yeah that's I think that's one of the common thread for a lot of them but a lot of them are just they're very different.

[00:31:56] Yeah. Have you tried Manis? I've heard of it. I have not

[00:32:00] into that one yet though. If you I'd highly recommend it for a few reasons for you. They it's very capable by app. Very capable. The most capable one. Like you know, it'll like iPhone it'll hand it'll be there whenever you refresh on your computer what you checked on your phone. Manage is like almost full management. And I tried Vibe Code when they first came out like and I was actually pissed.

[00:32:21] I shouldn't say this but like the founders are pretty cocky and arrogant. I'm just going to be straight forward. And so they posted I don't know if you follow them. Um but I say but they're doing a great job and that's their thing is to build apps supposedly the App Store which you got to pay 100 bucks and I screwed it up and I just gave up. But where you could go from your phone to the App Store.

[00:32:43] That's the premise. I think I tried it once on the desktop um on the whatever browser. I don't think that desktop. Oh, I think they do actually. But um but they did a thing where they said you know, repost this and comment and you'll get $53. And and by that point I'd already spent 50 bucks. I was like I'm done with this, right? It's a good platform though.

[00:33:02] And um and I over complicated it. Oh my god, of course. I would do it differently now. Well, they were like no you didn't do what I said. I said no I did actually. Here's the screenshot. Like literally I didn't follow the rules because I want 50 bucks, right? I'm cheap. And they said well you know, we capped it at X. And I said you didn't say that. I mean come on.

[00:33:22] You just So anyways, it's a lot of the startup games you know, where they do this stuff for promotion but then don't. And then they pissed off me and a lot of other people. So we were all like come on. Like really you just raised $40 million. You didn't set the term. So it was interesting. But I I don't hold it against them. But I think I don't really look to do apps.

[00:33:42] I do websites which they call apps. Why do they do that? They Do you know? I mean cuz technically it is a web application, right? So that's why it's still called like people will just drop the web and it's just like yeah, we just built this app and you're like well I can't find it on the App Store. No, it's just it's at this link.

[00:34:00] It's a website. Oh. Yeah. So, it's it's got data. So, it's not it's there's like a difference, right? Like you can have like a a website that's just like informational. You can click on things. You can make sales or whatever. Or there's like an actual database tied to it. So, then it's like a web application. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, people just be like, yeah, that's that's an app kind of thing.

[00:34:21] But yeah, this is interesting. That's that's one thing honestly I've found like, you know, I'll be reading a newsletter and they're like, did you try Fast Shot yet? Or did you try whatever? And I'm like, oh, that sounds pretty cool. And then I dive into it and I try like a a client app or something that I've had in all my mind of like, I'd really like to rebuild this or maybe try this or whatever.

[00:34:42] And uh I've only ever found one that I really like through that and the other ones they're just like again like that. You get to they promise it like, man, it's like so easy. You can launch to the App Store, Google Play or whatever. And then it's like, yeah, but I can't the functionality like doesn't work like I need it to or so like there's there's just something like and it's it we're in we're in infancy stage.

[00:35:04] We're way ahead of the game. So, I know this stuff in in even 2 years will be will be very very different and very capable. Um but right now it's just that's kind of why I've I've always fallen back on the Vibe Code platform is it builds very good web applications. Um you can launch them to the App Store right now and then you can't there's not really an easy way to go to the uh Google Play Store, but you can go through Visual Studio Code and you can and it gives you the package and you can publish it.

[00:35:31] So, it's not like it's just like stupid proof like a one click like launch to Google Play. Like it doesn't have that yet. Um but you can figure it out and you can do it. So, um Yeah. yeah, like I I was just reading another another thing of of a guy I follow that was like, you know, there's all the and I fall I fall for this trap too sometimes of like you there's so many things coming out and you're like, all right, I'm going to switch everything over to this.

[00:35:56] And like that's like the fatal flaw because you're going to switch it

[00:36:00] 900 times and you're never going to make any money or any progress. And then you're going to be like shit, I've been working for like a month. What did I actually ship? What did I What did I accomplish? Nothing. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Uh yeah, I think that's a trap a lot of people are falling into right now. I myself included at times. I have fallen into that at time.

[00:36:20] I'm getting better at pulling myself out of that, but it can be very dangerous, you know? Yeah. So with Mannis, I noticed on Mannis about a month ago and then with Lovable about 2 weeks ago. The And their thing, they have it where you can cross-reference. You could pull stuff from other projects like on the fly, it's directions, right? Reference this one.

[00:36:40] But with Mannis, which is a wrapper and I with a W, not like Jay-Z. But um uh so Mannis is Meta, Facebook just bought them, got a steal of a deal. The Chinese are pissed. They kept the founders in the country. They had done this weird thing where they went to Singapore. I know way too much about it. So Mannis is the most capable engine everything cuz it's a wrapper, it uses Claude, it uses everything.

[00:37:02] It uses whatever you need. So Lovable is starting to do And what I'm getting towards is persistent memory. So Lovable is starting to get better because I will do a project and it looks like the last project. And I go And I notice instantly just like, you know, somebody I said this recently like a carpenter, a roofer can hit a nail and know instantly something's wrong.

[00:37:23] The wood is, you know, rotted, whatever, right? Cuz you know, I'm a drummer. I feel the difference in the texture of the cymbal on the ride. It's just a weird thing. So all of a sudden I'm like this looks like what I last did. What's going on? I said what's going on? I didn't do it to Lovable, but um I did it with Mannis because I did a site and I'm a hack, so I said make it look like Louis Vuitton.

[00:37:45] Same thing with like whatever brand. I tell people just say pour or say Ralph Lauren, so whatever. It knows the design and you're just copying off of the millions they spent on design and styling, right? And then I did another site and it looks just like it. And

[00:38:00] Great. So I didn't have to guide it. I didn't have to direct it. I saved all that time. All that time doing all that shit. So that's why I asked like do yours look similar? Because functionality websites aren't that different, right? Menu at the top right. Um and I've created templates with it. So and it keeps saying you want to add a skill. So it's an agent and literally and because the app is so capable, which I figured out for many reasons.

[00:38:26] I tried all the apps to do stuff and it will do. So Manus the I I don't want to be glowing about them because their customer service is the absolute worst. And that's like with Vibe Code example, that's a pretty high bar for horrible tech customer service and respect from these fucking companies taking millions from the government for their data centers and whatever else and they literally can't refund you 5 minutes when they fuck up.

[00:38:53] You know, I'm like That's terrible. It's terrible, but they're growing so fast. They're growing so fast. They and I studied this years ago. I mean that's the move, you know, break whatever the Facebook thing is is move fast and break things and Move fast and break things, yeah. Yeah. And then you pick up the pieces later on. That's what's going on. Base 44 with Wix bought of like $800 million three or four months after the one guy and and then Lovable's the same.

[00:39:21] They've quadrupled in value in a year. They're 6.8 billion. They'll be 68 billion. I mean they so like GPT is great. I mean Lovable or Manus has only been unable to do two things and I don't remember what they are. I asked it one time. I said, can I do this? No, I asked other ones. Google asked whatever. But yeah, so I would highly recommend it because literally you could do I did a barbecue restaurant and you could duplicate it and say do this for the next town over and it knows everything you did and it'll work for 10, 20, 30 minutes.

[00:39:53] Bam. You still have to fine tune it probably for like an hour, you know, make the logo at the top left.

[00:40:00] archer whatever make it link to home. But But it it's it's unreal. So that they'll all get that way, I think. They'll all get to where, you know, 90% of this stuff, which on Lovable sometimes is done in one prompt, right? The other 10% takes a hundred. Yeah. I like move the H1 up. Do I have to say it again? And then they move it down. You're like, what's going on?

[00:40:20] I I'll say small I'll say lower. No, I say smaller and it lowered it. I'm like Come on. But it's it is on I mean the things that we expect from this technology, you know, Lovable's whole thing is build 20 times faster. It's not 20 times faster. It's 200 times faster for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's crazy. It's a good time. I mean, I'm I I think I'm glad that you What did If you can, do you What are your price points?

[00:40:44] Uh well, so it again it varies because like so just my thoughts real quick on that like it's really cool that you can have persistent memory and things like that. Um I would say, you know, for a lot of what we do that would actually kind of hinder what what what I do just because everything's so different. But But yeah, I mean when it comes to like those like there are principles of like on a on a laptop or desktop view if you're making a web application, right?

[00:41:11] That that um you would have your your menu at the top, your your options, whatever. But then as it scales down, like if there's a table view, you want that when it gets down to a mobile view we like to make it like a card view. So it's not like a like no one wants to go through a spreadsheet table on a mobile phone, you know? Um so yeah, there are there are some different things that I've I've started to train on as far as like hey, when scaling we want to keep these kinds of layouts similar.

[00:41:39] Um but we have kind of a whole process. But yeah, so to get to your question. So like our minimum engagement is usually even something like 2,500 bucks. Yeah, yeah. Um that's usually like the minimum. We we go below that sometimes if people need like tweaks here and there. We do have like a consulting hour where you can kind of just pay for like an hour time, 2 hours

[00:42:00] pack like small packages or whatever. If you just need kind of help here or there, whatever. Um but like for an entire project build of like hey, I got this idea and I just need someone to do it. Um usually starts at that. We'll do something. Our medium range is anywhere between like 5 to 10k uh for like you know multi-level platform builds, those kinds of things.

[00:42:20] Um cuz then you probably know uh getting it you know translated into a mobile app and then put on the app stores is a real pain in the ass. So. I've never succeeded. Have you succeeded? I never succeeded. Oh yeah, yeah. It's It's It's And that's the thing is like you'll get it rejected by app We have a client right now um that just has gotten rejected by Apple twice out for like obscure things.

[00:42:43] And it's just like hmm. Well um that's kind of the main functionality of this app. So where does that leave us? You know it's like we we're kind of figuring that out as we go, you know. Um but yeah, so that's kind of what we'll do. And then we can also have like we have like a hosting service too for where people um cuz that can also be a a you know a costly thing as well of like paying for those credits.

[00:43:06] So sometimes we'll just keep stuff inside of our developer accounts uh and then we'll just do a monthly fee to make sure that we make a profit but we can you know update things, bug fix things, whatever we need to do. So. So I you know what? I do authority whatever they call it, authority architecture, entity, whatever the AI says I do it like this week, right?

[00:43:27] And it keeps evolving it and it's trying to be like so megalomaniac like and I'm like I just want to like do cool stuff. Anyways, so um I and all that is is like I go to a dentist and I just think I I do this thing. I I didn't realize I did it and then I thought how I do stuff like in a meta way, not the company. And um I don't I won read their words.

[00:43:47] Like I I look at the words on the website but I won't read cuz I don't I want to objectively evaluate how this the entity is being presented. I don't want to be too fancy. But you know what I'm saying? I want to give my

[00:44:00] opinion. It's not mean, good or bad. So I go to most sites and I'm like a lawyer site, this is better than 95% of lawyers, right? It still needs to fix a thousand things, right? Um so I'll go and then I don't even listen to their voice until I'm done because that influences me. So I go and I like the second I see So would you like to know one weird bit of feedback about yours?

[00:44:22] Sure. Okay. This is weird. Dear Eddie. I will Well, before you even say that, I will say uh just caveat this with I am in the process of completely revamping everything that I have out there as of right now. So uh but yeah, go go go for it. I'm interested to hear it. Yeah. You need to change your pictures. How old are they? Uh what I mean, like I said, I have not updated stuff in in quite a while.

[00:44:46] So they're they're definitely they're getting aged for sure. Yeah. Do you know why? Do I know why I say I say I say that? Uh no. You're much more handsome than your pictures. Oh, thank you. You are much I'm That's the first thing I noticed. I'm like, okay. You might You've lost weight or something. I don't know. I've been losing a little bit of weight, yeah.

[00:45:08] Yeah, because the second I saw that, I was like, okay. And then I saw like your picture, I think from your podcast or something. Um and I was like Oh no, it was YouTube, I think. Um and I was like, I'm going to When you're my age, you use the best possible picture, right? From 10 years ago. And then you AI that thing. Now anyways, so take it or leave it.

[00:45:29] I'm just letting you know like I mean, who knows if it'll affect anything, right? But I'll have clients, dentists, and right? It's an old picture or they're 55 60, right? Just people get wrinkles, right? And I soften it a little bit, right? But like if it's a 10-year-old picture, I'll say give me five pictures. I'm going to do a new headshot for you.

[00:45:51] I did that for a lawyer I work with. Unreal. I I literally can't believe how good it turned out. And I didn't do it. I mean, all I did was upload five

[00:46:00] at the Nano Banana. Right. Um yeah, it was amazing. But it's been great talking to you. Let's keep in touch. Yeah, absolutely. Very very fun very fun show. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. Yeah. You're my pleasure. Take care, man. All right, thanks. You too. Yeah.